A Dialog on Original Sin and Karmic Debt

This is a recent email exchange between my friend, A.C., and me.

A.C. is a spiritual director and pychiatrist and is very adept in dream work, depth psychology, and Jungian thought.


Me: Just a brief thought. In recent years I’ve not been big on the notion of original sin thought up by Augustine. Rohr and Henri Nouwen talk about original sin as an endless capacity for self doubt. Also Rohr talks about it as the first real break or downer in our lives that somehow shifts our lenses of reality to be more pessimistic. This occurs early on in life.

Not discounting those things, but might some notion of Original Sin be connected to previous past life karmic debts? This might be true for not only individual past lives but also for group karmic debt. Consider Maldek’s choosing the Bigfoot body… Consider the Mars population’s more negative polarity as they incarnated in their own mid-3rd density. Bottom line…. Original sin is previous karmic debt.


A.C.: The Bible hints at this possibility

First, we must think of Sin as “Without an appropriate good” and not just badly intended actions.  So all inadequacies are part of the sin nature, not just our propensities toward bad actions. Our propensities to bad/service to self/ego-centric actions has to do with the fact that we have a ego-centric/Shadow system that is part of our instinctual nature. If we choose ego-centrism over truth, then we put part of our life energies and memories into the shadow which will thwart our good intentions until we resolve the issues it contains. This whole set up seems to me to be part of the human sin-nature.
Me: Well put. My turn, building on what you wrote: Sin can be seen in Law of One terms as a certain kind of “distortion” that does not seek unity as its telos. We start with Oneness.  Then we have Free Will (1st Distortion), Love (2nd Distortion), and Light (3rd Distortion), each building upon the other.  One cannot have Love without freewill before it.  One cannot have light without the love that creates it.  After that, all is a play on light.  Finity that does not or cannot recognize its already perfect oneness with Source is “in sin.”  Sin is a condition of not being able to see the wholeness OR intentionally choosing to NOT see the wholeness (blocking heart chakra). Finity is still compelled by its very nature to attempt to transcend itself (since finity is not real but an illusion) and reconnect. In this attempt to transcend (Love’s urgings), Finity will draw upon the sources it has, even if these sources are Shadows.  Thus even evil acts are acts of distorted love (desire and compulsion to transcend).  This is why I believe that one of Jesus’ primary tasks that he did with his life was to show the world that the concept of separation was an illusion (ie I saw Satan falling like lightening; the veil of the temple was torn in two; The Father and I are one… etc.)
A.C.: Another part of the Karmic weight/debt is what the Bible calls “futility”.
Romans 8
 I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
 19* For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;
 20* for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;
 21* because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.
 22* We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now;
 23* and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
This seems to suggest that God frustrates us on purpose, placing us in bondage to decay/entropy so that our best laid plans oft go astray. Murphy’s Law rules.   The struggle against this entropy is part of the choice-making that we do in this density. Are we willing to sacrifice ego-centric desires for the sake of others in times of scarcity or abundance? Without the futility principle in place, sacrifice would have no meaning. This too is part of the “Without an appropriate good” system which we work under. Our propensity toward ego-centrism amidst this, then, is our sin nature.
Me: Yes.  Ra tells us that the later Logoi learned that veil in 3D really speeds up the process of union because of the catalysts that it creates. The first fruit of the veil was that it revealed two paths towards union: the positive (intentionally going with the flow) and negative (intentionally going against the flow).  The second fruit is the choice that each sub-sub logos makes towards polarity. From our 3D perspective , catalysts look like trouble… it causes us to lament, etc.  From a higher perspective, we can be grateful for the catalysts because they are placed there as stepping stones towards wholeness…holiness…union.  Many saints said that they are grateful for their “sins” or hardships or even evil done to them because they have come to trust the whole process of the Pascal Mystery in their own lives so well.  All death leads to resurrection!  St. Francis called any evil done to him as “perfect joy.”  Julian of Norwhich said that the fall and the recover from the fall are both the grace of God.  Sub-Sub logoi, whether they be in 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th densities, are the Creator’s own Body coming into wholeness. The 4th, 5th, and early 6th density negative sub-sub logoi who still perceive themselves as separate from others and the Creator are in fact serving the Creator in a most helpful way!  In fact, they collectively embody the “Holy Denying”  force in the Law of Three (Gurdjieff) which allows for spiritual evolution.
A.C.: Regarding Karmic debt, specifically, note Genesis 34:
And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
I wonder if “fathers” here could mean “ancestors”. So that we carry within us portions of the collective consciousness that has living within it, past generation sins. Since our earlier sins generated karma, this could accrue to us specifically, or we could agree to carry a certain amount of the sin of our society during a given incarnation. We then process the Karma during that incarnation, lightening the load for everyone. This is like Jesus.
By trusting the Lamb of God in a given incarnation, and following his path of forgiveness, both given and received, we magnify our ability to burn of collective debt multifold.
Me. I love this…. and it is very Christian.  Christ showed us how to shoulder the burdens of others for the good of all.  Christianity is a path of community in communion towards union.
A.C.: One more Bible theme relates to the struggle with sin that’s part of the sin nature in the world system if not us.
2 Thessalonians 2
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?
 6* And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
 7* For the mystery of lawlessness (iniquity) is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
 8* And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming.
 9* The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,
 10* and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
 11* Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false,
 12* so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
God lets “the mystery of iniquity” dwell within the hidden world system for a time. This has everything to do with the Cabal and it’s higher power brokers.
Like the parable of the wheat and the tares, he lets the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest at the end of the age. It’s all very challenging, but to grapple with the mystery of iniquity is part of our Biblical calling, it seems. It is the sin principle within society.
The World, the Flesh (sarx) and the devil are all to be our intended adversaries so we can live heroically and be like those described in Revelations 12:
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

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